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 Post subject: Re: Ghost in the Shell live-action...can it actually be good?
PostPosted: Wed Mar 22, 2017 7:50 pm 
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Neon Genesis wrote:
I will say they got the visual aesthetic tone of GITS down pat and visually speaking it looks very impressive and the action scenes look well done. I'm still trying to keep an open mind to all sides of the debate over this movie. I feel like this is the type of movie that might appeal to casual movie goers and maybe even some film critics but it still be polarizing in anime fandom for years to come . I still feel like though that part of the appeal of anime is that you can watch these complex mature stories that you normally only see in live action in an animation setting and I still feel like you're losing part of the appeal of anime when it transitions to live-action. I'm still willing to give this shot but I don't think we can be dismissive to those with a more critical view of it either and I think it's important to continue a dialog about the issues with this movie even if it turns out to be a critical and financial success.

I think the movie at least has already won the 1st battle in getting people to talk about it - it's succeeded in drawing much attention before its opening. :)

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 Post subject: Re: Ghost in the Shell live-action...can it actually be good?
PostPosted: Wed Mar 22, 2017 7:56 pm 
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I just hope it turns out better than the Power Rangers reboot.


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 Post subject: Re: Ghost in the Shell live-action...can it actually be good?
PostPosted: Wed Mar 22, 2017 8:39 pm 
Aurorae Lunares
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Neon Genesis wrote:
I just hope it turns out better than the Power Rangers reboot.

It was that bad ?????????????

Honestly I hope the fil is good . I don' really pay attention to critics . ( Because they can be full themselves and soe what bias )I usually just watch films on my own mind . I do feel some anime fans do need to move on . What s done is done . There no sense of complaining about it . Don't get me wrong some critism , and concern are valid. Why some are just bashing. I always think an american remake can be a way people can be introduce to a franchise . If this sucks, oh well you atleast have the films,manga, and anime to watch.
I found an article today that the original director respond to the whitewashing?It makes good point. (Oshii said that because the main protagonist – Major Motoko Kusanagi – is a cyborg, the question of race and whitewashing is a moot point. “What issue could there possibly be with casting her?” Oshii said. “The major is a cyborg and her physical form is an entirely assumed one.”

“The name ‘Motoko Kusanagi’ and her current body are not her original name and body, so there is no basis for saying that an Asian actress must portray her. Even if her original body (presuming such a thing existed) were a Japanese one, that would still apply.”

Oshii added that he thought Johansson was the best possible person to play Kusanagi in the Rupert Sanders-helmed remake, which is out next weekend in the US. He also argued that actors of different backgrounds from the characters they are portraying is part and parcel of the film-making world.

“In the movies, John Wayne can play Genghis Khan, and Omar Sharif, an Arab, can play Doctor Zhivago, a Slav. It’s all just cinematic conventions,” he explained.

“If that’s not allowed, then Darth Vader probably shouldn’t speak English, either. I believe having Scarlett play Motoko was the best possible casting for this movie. I can only sense a political motive from the people opposing it, and I believe artistic expression must be free from politics.”)


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 Post subject: Re: Ghost in the Shell live-action...can it actually be good?
PostPosted: Mon Mar 27, 2017 1:17 am 
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You know, I think I agree that ScarJo was a bad choice. I'm not gonna see this movie.

But you know what really would've sold me on it? If they actually got Mary Elizabeth McGlynn to reprise Motoko in yellow-face. THAT I would pay to see. :P

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 Post subject: Re: Ghost in the Shell live-action...can it actually be good?
PostPosted: Mon Mar 27, 2017 1:36 am 
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Salem Saberhagen wrote:
You know, I think I agree that ScarJo was a bad choice. I'm not gonna see this movie.

But you know what really would've sold me on it? If they actually got Mary Elizabeth McGlynn to reprise Motoko in yellow-face. THAT I would pay to see. :P


They never would do it because Johansson is too big a name, but it would have been interesting if they'd at least dubbed her over with McGlynn's voice. Of course, the anti-dub folks would be screaming about that, but I think some people would have enjoyed it more. I've seen a lot of comments on the video clips complaining about how Johannson is putting too much emotion into her voice. I think the opposite - she sounds quite flat and boring in a lot of what I've seen - but hearing McGlynn's voice come out of her would definitely be fascinating.


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 Post subject: Re: Ghost in the Shell live-action...can it actually be good?
PostPosted: Wed Mar 29, 2017 8:50 am 
Aurorae Lunares
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The early reviews for GITS are up and so far it seems like it's not as bad as we feared. It currently has a 71% on Rotten Tomatoes which isn't too bad. That's about the same score as the live action Beauty and the Beast. The biggest complaint is that it seems like they've toned down the philosophical themes to focus more on action scenes but most reviews seem to praise the visuals and casting. I wish it could have turned out more ambitious but I'm just grateful it doesn't seem like it's as bad as Dragonball Evolution and Speed Racer and it at least seems like a respectable film to watch. In spite of my issues with this movie, I still hope it will be a success as I want to see more and better live action anime adaptations made. So I think I'm going to go see this eventually though not right away as I still need to go see Beauty and the Beast.


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 Post subject: Re: Ghost in the Shell live-action...can it actually be good?
PostPosted: Wed Mar 29, 2017 1:14 pm 
Aurorae Lunares
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Neon Genesis wrote:
The early reviews for GITS are up and so far it seems like it's not as bad as we feared. It currently has a 71% on Rotten Tomatoes which isn't too bad. That's about the same score as the live action Beauty and the Beast. The biggest complaint is that it seems like they've toned down the philosophical themes to focus more on action scenes but most reviews seem to praise the visuals and casting. I wish it could have turned out more ambitious but I'm just grateful it doesn't seem like it's as bad as Dragonball Evolution and Speed Racer and it at least seems like a respectable film to watch. In spite of my issues with this movie, I still hope it will be a success as I want to see more and better live action anime adaptations made. So I think I'm going to go see this eventually though not right away as I still need to go see Beauty and the Beast.

71 % percent is grea for American remakes


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 Post subject: Re: Ghost in the Shell live-action...can it actually be good?
PostPosted: Wed Mar 29, 2017 6:27 pm 
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Neon Genesis wrote:
The early reviews for GITS are up and so far it seems like it's not as bad as we feared. It currently has a 71% on Rotten Tomatoes which isn't too bad. That's about the same score as the live action Beauty and the Beast. The biggest complaint is that it seems like they've toned down the philosophical themes to focus more on action scenes but most reviews seem to praise the visuals and casting.

That's quite understandable from a business POV, tho. :)

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 Post subject: Re: Ghost in the Shell live-action...can it actually be good?
PostPosted: Wed Mar 29, 2017 8:18 pm 
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The philosophical themes are part of the main draw for GITS to me though and why I enjoy cyberpunk sci-fi movies like Blade Runner, Total Recall, and Minority Report. Even The Matrix, which was inspired by GITS, had a fair balance of philosophy and action, so it's a bit disappointing if they think philosophical sci-fi won't sell when it does just fine with American sci-fi movies.


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 Post subject: Re: Ghost in the Shell live-action...can it actually be good?
PostPosted: Wed Mar 29, 2017 8:39 pm 
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Neon Genesis wrote:
The philosophical themes are part of the main draw for GITS to me though and why I enjoy cyberpunk sci-fi movies like Blade Runner, Total Recall, and Minority Report. Even The Matrix, which was inspired by GITS, had a fair balance of philosophy and action, so it's a bit disappointing if they think philosophical sci-fi won't sell when it does just fine with American sci-fi movies.

I've watched all those films you mentioned & agree that there should always be a good balance of philosophy & action in such movies. :)

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 Post subject: Re: Ghost in the Shell live-action...can it actually be good?
PostPosted: Fri Mar 31, 2017 12:23 am 
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So has anyone watched the entire film and think its racist? :googly:

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 Post subject: Re: Ghost in the Shell live-action...can it actually be good?
PostPosted: Fri Mar 31, 2017 7:47 am 
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I haven't seen the movie yet but apparently the Rotten Tomatoes score has dropped all the way to 44%. That's a really shocking development to me considering it was 71% just the other day.


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 Post subject: Re: Ghost in the Shell live-action...can it actually be good?
PostPosted: Fri Mar 31, 2017 10:08 am 
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I bet the people who are upset about all the whitewashing and Scarlet Johansson's casting are responsible for pushing the score way down to 44%.

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 Post subject: Re: Ghost in the Shell live-action...can it actually be good?
PostPosted: Fri Mar 31, 2017 12:47 pm 
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SailorLinda1 wrote:
I bet the people who are upset about all the whitewashing and Scarlet Johansson's casting are responsible for pushing the score way down to 44%.

Is back at 50 % percent now
Its now 72 percent


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 Post subject: Re: Ghost in the Shell live-action...can it actually be good?
PostPosted: Fri Mar 31, 2017 4:36 pm 
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There's a video on YouTube of Japanese people responding to Scarlett Johansson in GITS and they don't mind if anything they said she looks more like her anime counterpart than if a Japanese person were to play the same character even if the the character is supposed to be Japanese

Basically if everyone does a good job I won't complain

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 Post subject: Re: Ghost in the Shell live-action...can it actually be good?
PostPosted: Fri Mar 31, 2017 11:21 pm 
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An authentic review I've read in another forum.

http://mugenguild.com/forum/topics/ente ... ckreplybox

Byakko wrote:
Just came back from it.
I only saw the '95 movie once a long time ago and I don't remember a thing of the actual plot because I thought it was either too complex, disjointed, or drowned in noise (also I didn't really watch much anime at the time). This version is pretty much straight forward, reworking the big elements and big scenes into something much simpler. It's standard SF with machines and what makes a person human, but it's really fine as far as SF goes. It's like a popcorn movie, but actually good, really well done. They completely revamped the Puppet Master into something a lot more cliché and simpler, but it's good enough to tie him with "Motoko" ; they give some strong hints to the original version but they seem to cover their ☹ at the last minute to make it stomachable.
Spoiler: show
He was "born multiple times" but then Mira/Motoko remembers who the original human body was, and there were dozens of previous attempts that might very well all be crammed in the same Kuze/Hideo. But they don't dare ask the question of whether Kuze is still Hideo or just the sum of all the previous failed attempts, as per the hints.

It's not a shameless Hollywoodian scavenging of a famous Japanese movie, it's obvious that everyone involved was a fan of the original version, they make sure to show a boatload of details, scenes and even shots, taken straight from it. they probably hope to slip a couple of sequels.
Good stuff. Not a straight copy, but you'll probably like it.

Oh, and lol at the big empty streets with not a single person in sight in broad daylight.

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 Post subject: Re: Ghost in the Shell live-action...can it actually be good?
PostPosted: Sat Apr 01, 2017 1:41 am 
Aurorae Lunares
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imaginationgirl wrote:
SailorLinda1 wrote:
I bet the people who are upset about all the whitewashing and Scarlet Johansson's casting are responsible for pushing the score way down to 44%.

Is back at 50 % percent now
Its now 72 percent


Now down to 41%. That puts it 6% beneath the Power Rangers movie, for reference's sake.

I think the scores are starting to settle down now that the movie is out. I doubt there'll be many more major shakeups.


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 Post subject: Re: Ghost in the Shell live-action...can it actually be good?
PostPosted: Sat Apr 01, 2017 3:14 am 
Aurorae Lunares
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foenyanko wrote:
imaginationgirl wrote:
SailorLinda1 wrote:
I bet the people who are upset about all the whitewashing and Scarlet Johansson's casting are responsible for pushing the score way down to 44%.

Is back at 50 % percent now
Its now 72 percent


Now down to 41%. That puts it 6% beneath the Power Rangers movie, for reference's sake.

I think the scores are starting to settle down now that the movie is out. I doubt there'll be many more major shakeups.

Well yaah the score seems now mix to average /. So that s preetty good for a remakr


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 Post subject: Re: Ghost in the Shell live-action...can it actually be good?
PostPosted: Sat Apr 01, 2017 5:59 am 
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SailorLinda1 wrote:
I bet the people who are upset about all the whitewashing and Scarlet Johansson's casting are responsible for pushing the score way down to 44%.


I am thinking of more of it having to deal with the story elements. It might be missing a few key elements from the anime but I cannot judge since I haven't seen it yet. The trailer didn't show the tanks that they use, so maybe people felt that it wasn't true to the original story..

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 Post subject: Re: Ghost in the Shell live-action...can it actually be good?
PostPosted: Sat Apr 01, 2017 9:48 am 
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Most of the complaints in the reviews have been that the movie is cliched and tones down the philosophy themes of the original. Doctor Strange also got a lot of whitewashing criticism but it has a 90% rating on Rotten Tomatoes. Most professional film critics typically stay out of the political side and focus on just reviewing the movie.


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 Post subject: Re: Ghost in the Shell live-action...can it actually be good?
PostPosted: Sat Apr 01, 2017 1:38 pm 
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Neon Genesis wrote:
Most of the complaints in the reviews have been that the movie is cliched and tones down the philosophy themes of the original. Doctor Strange also got a lot of whitewashing criticism but it has a 90% rating on Rotten Tomatoes. Most professional film critics typically stay out of the political side and focus on just reviewing the movie.

Which is professional , I can't take any view seriously . If your biggest thing is a bout te race f a fiction character.


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 Post subject: Re: Ghost in the Shell live-action...can it actually be good?
PostPosted: Sat Apr 01, 2017 10:21 pm 
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Watched it today. It was a good film, but, as already said, it toned down many of the philosophical themes of the original. Also, there was a nice touch about the Major:
Spoiler: show
She uses the name "Mira Killian" (the rare times she doesn't call herself the Major) for most of the movie, as she thinks it's her real name-then she finds out her mother is alive, and guess what's her given name? Or what given and family name the Major sees when she visits her own grave (as she had her death faked in the backstory)?

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 Post subject: Re: Ghost in the Shell live-action...can it actually be good?
PostPosted: Sun Apr 02, 2017 7:18 am 
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So I watched it and its actually good. Note that I don't like the anime series at all. Scarlett Johansson brought life (about half way through the film) to a lifeless character I never admired. But what I liked about her was despite her having a robot body is that she's still vulnerable just harder to kill. But if you're looking for kick-☹ Scarlett that actually kicked ☹ in MCU then you might find it a little disappointing when you're comparing her to Black Widow.

I had a problem with the main villain as I felt he wasn't villainy enough. He only had a few memorable scenes to be honest.

Oh and is it racist and yellow face? :ohmy:
Spoiler: show
Well that would really depend on how you see it but getting to 3/4 of movie you're gonna find out that it actually reflects the executives decision to make her a caucasian as the Major was originally a japanese technophobe activist brainwashed to become a perfect english speaking white killing machine. But I actually enjoyed her moments with her asian mother. Ending was too short but its not necessary unless you want a very long Return Of The King ending.


As for the philosophical elements I really didn't care about that after watching the Matrix say random stuff for like 10 minutes just to make it feel more like a masterpiece. It's a simple story of a corporate cover up just done in sci-fi with lots of hacking. Yes, there's tons of hacking in this movie.

As a sci-fi flick I find this to be more enjoyable than the live action movie version of Aeon Flux.

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 Post subject: Re: Ghost in the Shell live-action...can it actually be good?
PostPosted: Sun Apr 02, 2017 8:03 am 
Aurorae Lunares
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I might still go see it but the part about her past is what worries me most.
Spoiler: show
Killing off her Japanese identity to make her white for Americans does sound a little awkward and seems to contradict the arguments of the apologists who kept insisting the Major doesn't have a race.


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 Post subject: Re: Ghost in the Shell live-action...can it actually be good?
PostPosted: Sun Apr 02, 2017 11:58 am 
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Rika-Chicchi wrote:
I do wish Kikuchi Rinko would take the role, tho, tho Johansson is also an actress I've always liked.


I really wish they would have given the role to Kikuchi Rinko too. I feel like she could be really bankable if Hollywood gave her the chance. I know that Japanese people don't really care, but for me as a western-Asian (half-Japanese it counts :p) it's hard not to be bitter that this role was given to a white actress. This is the only lead role I can think of that could've been given to an Asian actress in a Hollywood movie. And if they're going to white-wash the two main characters (Major and Batou), why keep the city Asian? Wouldn't it make more sense to have the city a futuristic New York?

All that complaining aside, Ghost in the Shell is a lot more potent in a Japanese context. After World War II/nulcear bombs Japan rebuilt themselves through technology - that post-war relationship with technology is supposed to parallel the fictional Japan in the series and the philosophical themes that come with it.

At best, it looks like the Hollywood remake is just going to be a flashy sci fi action movie. Sci-fi/action movies based on Ghost in the Shell were already made in the 90's (*cough* the Matrix). I'm not sure what Hollywood thinks they're getting out of this either than stirring up more white-washing controversy.


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 Post subject: Re: Ghost in the Shell live-action...can it actually be good?
PostPosted: Sun Apr 02, 2017 2:06 pm 
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You guys can always look at this film another way.

The film tells the problem of cyber technology in society in the possible future. Its almost the same problem with Stars Wars Rogue One using a different set of actors and painting CGI on their faces. The film was subtle in stating this issue
Spoiler: show
as the mind can be hacked and brainwashed so easily in the film
. ^_^

Think plastic surgery with real wires and plastic prosthetics. :ohmy:

Spoiler: show
At the beginning of the film Scarlett states that she doesn't feel human only to have it dismissed by her doctor/stepmother. She questions her humanity at least two or three more times.


Cybernetic parts looked so normal in the film its actually scary when you think about it. The technology is actually here.


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 Post subject: Re: Ghost in the Shell live-action...can it actually be good?
PostPosted: Sun Apr 02, 2017 6:38 pm 
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^ Reminding me of The Six Million Dollar Man & its spin-off The Bionic Woman. lol

Now the future in the past is now. :)

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 Post subject: Re: Ghost in the Shell live-action...can it actually be good?
PostPosted: Sun Apr 02, 2017 8:31 pm 
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Now that I think about it, there's a problem with the Major's a backstory: she got one. In the manga, the other movies and the anime there was an aura of mystery generated from nobody else knowing anything about her, not even the name (Motoko is an obvious alias: Motoko means "plain child", and Kusanagi is a legendary sword. The English equivalent would be "(plain) Jane Excalibur") and even her having doubts about her backstory (in fact, in SAC she has forgot her true name), and knowing where she comes from ruins the effect.

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 Post subject: Re: Ghost in the Shell live-action...can it actually be good?
PostPosted: Sun Apr 02, 2017 9:26 pm 
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lord Martiya wrote:
Now that I think about it, there's a problem with the Major's a backstory: she got one. In the manga, the other movies and the anime there was an aura of mystery generated from nobody else knowing anything about her, not even the name (Motoko is an obvious alias: Motoko means "plain child", and Kusanagi is a legendary sword. The English equivalent would be "(plain) Jane Excalibur") and even her having doubts about her backstory (in fact, in SAC she has forgot her true name), and knowing where she comes from ruins the effect.

I personally think it was nice to give her a back story. Not in the movie , but in Arise they gave her a small one . Saying her parents died in the car crash . When her mother pregnant with her . Her brain was still alive so they put her in a robot body.


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 Post subject: Re: Ghost in the Shell live-action...can it actually be good?
PostPosted: Sun Apr 02, 2017 10:42 pm 
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lord Martiya wrote:
Now that I think about it, there's a problem with the Major's a backstory: she got one. In the manga, the other movies and the anime there was an aura of mystery generated from nobody else knowing anything about her, not even the name (Motoko is an obvious alias: Motoko means "plain child", and Kusanagi is a legendary sword. The English equivalent would be "(plain) Jane Excalibur") and even her having doubts about her backstory (in fact, in SAC she has forgot her true name), and knowing where she comes from ruins the effect.

So it's a total recall for her in this movie. lol

I think her backstory is too artificial in explaining away why she's a Caucasian now. :P

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