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 Post subject: Saw new Sailor Moon R movie for the first time - questions
PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 3:08 am 
Luna Nova
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As I mentioned I'm a new Moonie who only knows the Viz material. I saw the Sailor Moon R movie on Blu-Ray yesterday. It was fun, as was the cartoon short where the characters were introduced, though my question regards the earlier dubs. I know that in English dubs before Viz they removed all LGBT content. How was that done with this movie? I can't see it as anything other than Fiore being upset that Mamoru is no longer interested in him. How did DiC/Cloverway rewrite that?

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 Post subject: Re: Saw new Sailor Moon R movie for the first time - questions
PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 4:27 am 
Aurorae Lunares
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Their relationship was largely kept the same but the original dub kept trying to tone it down by having them talk about Serena and Darien's "friendship" in every other line.


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 Post subject: Re: Saw new Sailor Moon R movie for the first time - questions
PostPosted: Sun Apr 23, 2017 5:13 am 
Luna Nova
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Neon Genesis wrote:
Their relationship was largely kept the same but the original dub kept trying to tone it down by having them talk about Serena and Darien's "friendship" in every other line.


I just stumbled across this video on YouTube. Was it anything like this?


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 Post subject: Re: Saw new Sailor Moon R movie for the first time - questions
PostPosted: Sun Apr 23, 2017 5:40 am 
Aurorae Lunares
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It wasn't as explicit as the cousins thing, but then, the R movie isn't explicitly detailing the relationship of two consensual people like Sailor Moon S did with Haruka and Michiru. There's only the implication of a one-sided affection from Fiore. So burying it under a little extra dialogue trying to emphasize their "friendship" instead (which to be fair, from Mamoru's point of view, it seemed to be the reality of that relationship) was all they needed to do.


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 Post subject: Re: Saw new Sailor Moon R movie for the first time - questions
PostPosted: Sun Apr 23, 2017 6:28 am 
Stella
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My, my those clips especially the one where Haruka and Michiru darn near look like they are about to kiss reminds me of just how incestuous the cousins cover up was. VIZ however did the two proper justice as a couple.

As for Mamoru and Fiore I don't think the cover up was quite that explicit. I think they merely edited out some stuff like the Inners talking about how they perceive Fiore to be romantically attracted to Mamoru and Ami's little quip about Mamoru being popular with men.

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 Post subject: Re: Saw new Sailor Moon R movie for the first time - questions
PostPosted: Sun Apr 23, 2017 7:41 am 
Aurorae Lunares
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It wasn't anything as extreme as the Cloverway dub but they just had Serena and Darien refer to each other's relationship as a "friendship" to try and imply that he only saw Fiore as a friend.


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 Post subject: Re: Saw new Sailor Moon R movie for the first time - questions
PostPosted: Sun Apr 23, 2017 6:21 pm 
Solaris Luna
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redblade7 wrote:
As I mentioned I'm a new Moonie who only knows the Viz material. I saw the Sailor Moon R movie on Blu-Ray yesterday. It was fun, as was the cartoon short where the characters were introduced, though my question regards the earlier dubs. I know that in English dubs before Viz they removed all LGBT content. How was that done with this movie? I can't see it as anything other than Fiore being upset that Mamoru is no longer interested in him. How did DiC/Cloverway rewrite that?


I wouldn't really say this movie has "LGBT content" to begin with. Fans can interpret Fiore's interest in Mamoru as being romantic, but I don't think that's really the case. At best, his feelings are ambiguous. The only things that Pioneer had to rewrite from the original script were Ami's remark about Mamoru's popularity with men and Minako saying there's a couple in "that" kind of relationship at her school (cue shocked giggling from the others). Honestly, those remarks kind of irk me in the original, so I'm happy they were removed in the Pioneer version which, incidentally, I really recommend checking out if you can find it (which shouldn't be too hard on the internet). It's a really fun, well-made adaptation that, IMO, really holds up.

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 Post subject: Re: Saw new Sailor Moon R movie for the first time - questions
PostPosted: Sun Apr 23, 2017 11:25 pm 
Aurorae Lunares
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I would say there is as much subtext for Fiore being gay as there is for Aluminum Siren and Lead Crow being gay. That fans have debated Fiore's sexuality for decades with no definitive answer should indicate it's not as cut and dry as fans on either side want it to be. I do believe it was Ikuhara's intention to make the nature of Mamoru and Fiore's relationship ambiguous. The girls' confusion about Mamoru's sexuality and Usagi's initial jealousy should be the first clues to that. The movie is also always constantly drawing comparison between Mamoru's relationship with Fiore to his relationship with Usagi. Fiore in fact comes to accept Usagi himself when he realizes she was the one that gave Mamoru the rose and he realizes Usagi loved Mamoru just as he did all along. I think Fiore is also meant to be compared with Ali and An who also had a lot of romantic entanglements with Mamoru and Usagi. Ikuhara has also stated in interviews before he does not write about heterosexuality in his works because he feels it distracts from the plot. As much as Utena is praised for it's progressive queer representation, I do think fans overstate how explicit the series is about it's gay themes. Barring the movie, Utena and Anthy's is always portrayed as ambgious in the show. They never come out and say they're in love with each other. Touga's bisexuality is something only hinted at in the shadows and never fully shown. Even with Jury, while she gets the strongest implication, she still never fully comes out about her feelings. Whether Toei intended Fiore's sexuality to be canon or not, I don't know why fans use the ambiguous argument as a case against it, as though Ikuhara has never written an anime with a heavy use of symbolism and ambiguity before.


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