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 Post subject: Sailor Moon Classic Toei HD Remaster
PostPosted: Mon Apr 06, 2015 1:45 pm 
Lumen Cinereum
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I think it deserves it's own treat, Mercurius took pics of recently aired 1st episode on NHK HD, i hope he/she won't mind i borrowed his pics, it is such a shame that Viz couldn't wait until Toei did their remaster.
Viz
http://www.sailormoonforum.com/download ... p?id=33116
http://www.sailormoonforum.com/download ... p?id=33121
NHK HD
http://www.sailormoonforum.com/download ... p?id=33117
http://www.sailormoonforum.com/download ... p?id=33122


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 Post subject: Re: Sailor Moon Classic Toei HD Remaster
PostPosted: Mon Apr 06, 2015 1:59 pm 
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looks so cool! Too bad we ain't getting a release for this soon enough.

why, oh why this always happens with Sailor Moon releases ^_^' :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Sailor Moon Classic Toei HD Remaster
PostPosted: Mon Apr 06, 2015 5:40 pm 
Luna
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rubiick wrote:
looks so cool! Too bad we ain't getting a release for this soon enough.

why, oh why this always happens with Sailor Moon releases ^_^' :lol:

Because TOEI sucks lol

EDIT: Also NJ_ posted these in another thread
NJ_ wrote:

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 Post subject: Re: Sailor Moon Classic Toei HD Remaster
PostPosted: Mon Apr 06, 2015 7:32 pm 
Luna Crescens
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I wanted to see the difference between the HD version by Toei and the version DVD by Dynit.

Comparative folder :

https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set ... 514&type=1


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 Post subject: Re: Sailor Moon Classic Toei HD Remaster
PostPosted: Mon Apr 06, 2015 7:38 pm 
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sailormoongalaxy: Thanks! ^_^

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So....reverse importation fears + Toei's gradual BD box whenever probably = VIZ wouldn't get HD Moon until, what late 2016 or early 2017, huh?

I'm just roughly estimating here, but I do hope VIZ is in talks with Toei considering all the crazy back-and-forth that VIZ had the best masters, then Toei dropped this bombshell (especially considering Italy/France/Spain got pretty masters, more or less, but they disappeared).

Sai! Lor! V! https://twitter.com/YukiAnilog/status/5 ... 4588786688

I hope there's a trailer or something eventually out so we can see how things look in motion. According to what I've heard (and seen of screencaps), there's loss of detail, but visually it looks A LOT better than VIZ's Season 1 release.

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 Post subject: Re: Sailor Moon Classic Toei HD Remaster
PostPosted: Mon Apr 06, 2015 7:47 pm 
Planeta
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Is the TOEI HD Remaster upscaled? It doesn't look upscaled to me.

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 Post subject: Re: Sailor Moon Classic Toei HD Remaster
PostPosted: Mon Apr 06, 2015 8:42 pm 
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Clow wrote:
Is the TOEI HD Remaster upscaled? It doesn't look upscaled to me.


Right? I guess it turns out that Viz was telling the truth :P It just looks like Toei is doing what Viz is doing and just messing with the saturation and brightness. It doesn't look like a true HD remaster.


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 Post subject: Re: Sailor Moon Classic Toei HD Remaster
PostPosted: Mon Apr 06, 2015 11:36 pm 
Planeta
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ZetusMoon wrote:
Clow wrote:
Is the TOEI HD Remaster upscaled? It doesn't look upscaled to me.


Right? I guess it turns out that Viz was telling the truth :P It just looks like Toei is doing what Viz is doing and just messing with the saturation and brightness. It doesn't look like a true HD remaster.


The only difference I can see is that the Toei version looks clearer.

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 Post subject: Re: Sailor Moon Classic Toei HD Remaster
PostPosted: Mon Apr 06, 2015 11:52 pm 
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Well it looks better than Viz's, that's for ☹ sure. No pink skin, no super-blurriness. It does look like they applied DNR but not so much that it's irritating.


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 Post subject: Re: Sailor Moon Classic Toei HD Remaster
PostPosted: Tue Apr 07, 2015 1:32 am 
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If the show was originally done in 480p, isn't it technically upscaled?

I really love how it looks so far. The minor loss of detail (e.g. some sparkle effects missing, like with the Sailor V screenshot vs Italian remastered DVDs) doesn't bug me too much.

I'm guessing 89 and other clips show episodes would be the only ones to really suffer? Hopefully the movies + theatrical screened specials (Make Up! Sailor Senshi and Ami's First Love) will look amazing :love:

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 Post subject: Re: Sailor Moon Classic Toei HD Remaster
PostPosted: Tue Apr 07, 2015 1:45 am 
Luna Crescens
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Sailor Star Dust wrote:
If the show was originally done in 480p, isn't it technically upscaled?

I really love how it looks so far. The minor loss of detail (e.g. some sparkle effects missing, like with the Sailor V screenshot vs Italian remastered DVDs) doesn't bug me too much.

I'm guessing 89 and other clips show episodes would be the only ones to really suffer? Hopefully the movies + theatrical screened specials (Make Up! Sailor Senshi and Ami's First Love) will look amazing :love:


The masters are of higher resolution. Viz currently holds masters that are approx. 900p, so I am sure Toei has something near that or much higher. If they were to go back to the original film negatives, they would be able to re-scan the whole series in 1080p instead of upscaling from the 480p masters.


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 Post subject: Re: Sailor Moon Classic Toei HD Remaster
PostPosted: Tue Apr 07, 2015 1:47 am 
Planeta
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The show was animated onto 16mm film and can be scanned at basically any resolution.


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 Post subject: Re: Sailor Moon Classic Toei HD Remaster
PostPosted: Tue Apr 07, 2015 2:25 am 
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Huh, I didn't know that about the show proper.

Thanks for the info, y'all! :love:

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 Post subject: Re: Sailor Moon Classic Toei HD Remaster
PostPosted: Tue Apr 07, 2015 2:51 am 
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PurpleWarrior13 wrote:
The show was animated onto 16mm film and can be scanned at basically any resolution.


Ultra HD 4K resolution. :P

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 Post subject: Re: Sailor Moon Classic Toei HD Remaster
PostPosted: Tue Apr 07, 2015 3:05 am 
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The HD version looks alittle sharper but not overwhelmingly better imo .

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 Post subject: Re: Sailor Moon Classic Toei HD Remaster
PostPosted: Tue Apr 07, 2015 3:30 am 
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Examples of proper HD remasters of 90s shows NOT by Toei.

1. Berserk (TV Series)

hissatsu wrote:
VAP BD releases of cel-based anime are wildly variable. Some are decent upscales (Tylor) - though they shouldn't be upscales in the first place. Others are crimes against humanity (Master Keaton), and others like GPX Cyber Formula and this, Berserk, get HD telecines that are actually rather good.

Big upgrade from the DVD here, the only arguable "flaw" I see is some grain reduction, but it's nothing objectionable, and I don't see any loss of detail. The DVD is the Media Blasters R1 remaster release, which was claimed to be a new telecine, but wasn't. It was at least made from component masters and progressive - it's pretty decent overall. One improvement not noticeable in the screen shots is that you don't see the shmutz at the edge of the film frame every time there's a cut from one scene to another. This was pretty apparent in the DVDs, and a lot of old telecines are like that.

Oh, and I noticed that the episode titles appear originally have been done digitally - they look like not so good upscales to me. Weird that just such a minor thing would be done digitally in an otherwise entirely cel-based production. I'm kind of surprised they didn't redo them for the BD like the OP and ED titles. But I can live with 5 seconds or so of mediocre upscale per episode.

BD screenshots cropped to 4:3 (1440x1080), DVD screenshots bicubic resized to 1440x1080

01 R1DVD | BD
02 R1DVD | BD
03 R1DVD | BD
04 R1DVD | BD
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40 R1DVD | BD
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42 R1DVD | BD
43 R1DVD | BD
44 R1DVD | BD
45 R1DVD | BD
46 R1DVD | BD


2. Revolutionary Girl Utena (TV Series & movie)

hissatsu wrote:
The main question for Utena on BD is whether the rather severe aliasing in the DVD remaster is present. The answer is that yes, there is aliasing, but not nearly as severe as the DVD. On the plus side, little in the way of grain reduction to be seen. So, not as good as it could be, but still by far the best version that exists. A little disappointing, but pretty much what was expected.

(BD screenshots cropped to 1440x1080, DVD screenshots bicubic resized to 1440x1080)

01 R1DVD | BD
02 R1DVD | BD
03 R1DVD | BD
04 R1DVD | BD
05 R1DVD | BD
06 R1DVD | BD
07 R1DVD | BD
08 R1DVD | BD
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35 R1DVD | BD

The Adolescence of Utena BD doesn't appear to have any of the aliasing present in TV series BDs/TV remaster DVDs and the movie remaster DVD. Looks rather nice, though the digital animation and CG portions obviously aren't as sharp as the 35mm film, and there is some edge enhancement. I've included the CPM DVD in the comparison, as it and the Nozomi remaster release were kind of a tossup. More compression artifacts, EE, and jacked up contrast on the CPM DVD, lots of aliasing and what looks like pretty heavy noise reduction on the Nozomi DVD.

(DVD screenshots bicubic resized to 1920x1080)

01 R1 CPM DVD | R1 NOZOMI DVD | BD
02 R1 CPM DVD | R1 NOZOMI DVD | BD
03 R1 CPM DVD | R1 NOZOMI DVD | BD
04 R1 CPM DVD | R1 NOZOMI DVD | BD
05 R1 CPM DVD | R1 NOZOMI DVD | BD
06 R1 CPM DVD | R1 NOZOMI DVD | BD
07 R1 CPM DVD | R1 NOZOMI DVD | BD
08 R1 CPM DVD | R1 NOZOMI DVD | BD
09 R1 CPM DVD | R1 NOZOMI DVD | BD
10 R1 CPM DVD | R1 NOZOMI DVD | BD
11 R1 CPM DVD | R1 NOZOMI DVD | BD
12 R1 CPM DVD | R1 NOZOMI DVD | BD
13 R1 CPM DVD | R1 NOZOMI DVD | BD
14 R1 CPM DVD | R1 NOZOMI DVD | BD
15 R1 CPM DVD | R1 NOZOMI DVD | BD
16 R1 CPM DVD | R1 NOZOMI DVD | BD
17 R1 CPM DVD | R1 NOZOMI DVD | BD
18 R1 CPM DVD | R1 NOZOMI DVD | BD
19 R1 CPM DVD | R1 NOZOMI DVD | BD
20 R1 CPM DVD | R1 NOZOMI DVD | BD
21 R1 CPM DVD | R1 NOZOMI DVD | BD
22 R1 CPM DVD | R1 NOZOMI DVD | BD
23 R1 CPM DVD | R1 NOZOMI DVD | BD
24 R1 CPM DVD | R1 NOZOMI DVD | BD
25 R1 CPM DVD | R1 NOZOMI DVD | BD
26 R1 CPM DVD | R1 NOZOMI DVD | BD
27 R1 CPM DVD | R1 NOZOMI DVD | BD
28 R1 CPM DVD | R1 NOZOMI DVD | BD
29 R1 CPM DVD | R1 NOZOMI DVD | BD


3. Giant Robo (which was remastered in 4K)

hissatsu wrote:
This is the 4th time I've bought GR (Original LD release, Giant Robo Giga Premium R2 DVD Box, MB R1 DVD release, this BD box). I know the price on the BD box was higher than usual, but try paying more than 10000 yen per LD volume (for some of the volumes). Even with a weaker yen back then, it was pretty ☹ expensive.

I no longer have the R2 Box to compare to, so the MB R1 release will have to suffice. Though I remember thinking years ago that it wasn't bad. I know bit rate is actually high pretty high (reaching near max for DVD often). Still looks like garbage compared to the BD though. Way too much ringing and the color timing and contrast on the BD is far better.

It appears grain removal was done, though light grain remains, and 90's 35mm film stocks were generally pretty fine-grained to begin with. I can't see any evidence of detail loss, and being a 4K telecine, I'd expect more detail, and it's certainly there.

The BD image is slightly wider 4:3; active image area is 1478x1080 (and screenshots are cropped to that width), so BD screenshots show slightly more image on the left and right edges than the DVD. DVD screenshots bicubic resized to 1440x1080

01 R1DVD | BD
02 R1DVD | BD
03 R1DVD | BD
04 R1DVD | BD
05 R1DVD | BD
06 R1DVD | BD
07 R1DVD | BD
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44 R1DVD | BD
45 R1DVD | BD


Other examples include Yu Yu Hakusho, Tenchi Muyo OVAs 1 & 2, Cardcaptor Sakura, most recently with Magic Knight Rayearth (yellow tint & OVA on bonus DVD aside :| ) & hopefully Evangelion.

☹ shame Toei won't do remasters like these for ANY of their shows. They do for their movies but have recently become inconsistent with those now (see Digimon which had most of them handled poorly).

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 Post subject: Re: Sailor Moon Classic Toei HD Remaster
PostPosted: Tue Apr 07, 2015 4:39 am 
Luna Crescens
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Iantuition wrote:
Well it looks better than Viz's, that's for ☹ sure. No pink skin, no super-blurriness. It does look like they applied DNR but not so much that it's irritating.


A little bit more sharpening may do the trick:

http://i.imgur.com/6cI4Kff.png
http://i.imgur.com/FNKzgpy.png
http://i.imgur.com/zX1zxFU.png
http://i.imgur.com/YrSEOio.png


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 Post subject: Re: Sailor Moon Classic Toei HD Remaster
PostPosted: Tue Apr 07, 2015 4:48 am 
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Also Ranma 1/2 got a gorgeous new telecine that looks 1000% better than the old early 2000s DVDs. The Tenchi Muyo OVAs and movies also look beautiful, and so does Bubblegum Crisis.


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 Post subject: Re: Sailor Moon Classic Toei HD Remaster
PostPosted: Tue Apr 07, 2015 1:52 pm 
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Can we at least be thankful that VIZ even got the rights. Its not their fault Toei had the good remasters. Okayy would u guys rather wait and have them stop production of the dub to get the remasters? Not get sailor moon until a long time from now.

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 Post subject: Re: Sailor Moon Classic Toei HD Remaster
PostPosted: Tue Apr 07, 2015 2:24 pm 
Lumen Cinereum
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Toei, you got some 'splainin' to do! :evil:


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 Post subject: Re: Sailor Moon Classic Toei HD Remaster
PostPosted: Tue Apr 07, 2015 5:39 pm 
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I made 1080p png screen shots of the VIZ HD remaster, and compared them with 1080p png screenshots of the Toei HD remaster and the Italian DVD. For a fair comparison there are only 3 screenshots present atm, because I only found 3 png images in 1080p of the Toei HD remaster. Most screenshots of the Toei remaster on the web are in 720p, or even less!

SET 001
SET 002
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 Post subject: Re: Sailor Moon Classic Toei HD Remaster
PostPosted: Tue Apr 07, 2015 6:19 pm 
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The Italian ones seems a bit more grime than the US ones

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 Post subject: Re: Sailor Moon Classic Toei HD Remaster
PostPosted: Tue Apr 07, 2015 10:59 pm 
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So, what/where/when is the next event that Viz will be at for fans to inevitably ask them about this?

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 Post subject: Re: Sailor Moon Classic Toei HD Remaster
PostPosted: Tue Apr 07, 2015 11:16 pm 
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Ami Mizuno wrote:
Can we at least be thankful that VIZ even got the rights. Its not their fault Toei had the good remasters. Okayy would u guys rather wait and have them stop production of the dub to get the remasters? Not get sailor moon until a long time from now.


People are never happy and would complain either way sadly. Even if video quality isn't the best (although it looks fine to me) I'm glad Viz got the rights and even gave dub fans a faithful dub.

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 Post subject: Re: Sailor Moon Classic Toei HD Remaster
PostPosted: Wed Apr 08, 2015 12:04 am 
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I am so confused. I am not up to date with the current dvd situation. I have the first season on dvd which was remastered by Toei.. And now there's someone else making remasters?
I am so not with it right now. Would someone be so kind as to explain it to me? Hahaha :mrgreen:

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 Post subject: Re: Sailor Moon Classic Toei HD Remaster
PostPosted: Wed Apr 08, 2015 12:33 am 
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Sabrblade wrote:
So, what/where/when is the next event that Viz will be at for fans to inevitably ask them about this?


:tongue: They're having another live stream "Moonlight Party" on their youtube page to premiere the new dub episodes for R this Friday. I guess people can try to have them respond there.... but

I wouldn't bother, they've already responded to this waaay before it was known that Japan was planning to release their own "HD" version of the show. Viz has already said that Toei gave them what they gave them and there's nothing they can do about it other than try to improve on it with their own edits. They don't plan to rerelease anything or hit the pause button on their production just to get a possible true HD version, which by the way according to Viz does not exist and will never exist cause the original film material Toei lost/damaged/or threw away (looking at the new version Toei is airing, Viz's statement is true). In my opinion and I'm sure Viz is on the same boat here, Japan's new rendition of the 90's anime isn't really that significantly better than what Viz is doing so there's no point of going through the struggle to try and get it. I much rather Viz keep focus on producing their new dub and making their product better than the previous from here on out.

I feel sorry for Viz people have really been on their throats about their Sailor Moon release.. I wish them the best of luck. :P


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 Post subject: Re: Sailor Moon Classic Toei HD Remaster
PostPosted: Thu Apr 09, 2015 5:26 pm 
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I've mentioned to them on Twitter awhile back that I hope fans get some good news RE Toei's HD release, but of course, they never replied (NDAs and whatnot, I'm sure).

IF they do work it out with Toei to release Toei's HD remasters, I really think it won't be for a few years like I mentioned here.

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 Post subject: Re: Sailor Moon Classic Toei HD Remaster
PostPosted: Fri Apr 10, 2015 5:49 pm 
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Black_Chaos wrote:
Ami Mizuno wrote:
Can we at least be thankful that VIZ even got the rights. Its not their fault Toei had the good remasters. Okayy would u guys rather wait and have them stop production of the dub to get the remasters? Not get sailor moon until a long time from now.


People are never happy and would complain either way sadly. Even if video quality isn't the best (although it looks fine to me) I'm glad Viz got the rights and even gave dub fans a faithful dub.


People are allowed to criticize a product that they buy, and they should be allowed to do so without someone guilt-tripping them for not lapping up a poor release like a good little robot.

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 Post subject: Re: Sailor Moon Classic Toei HD Remaster
PostPosted: Fri Apr 10, 2015 5:55 pm 
Planeta
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Seen wrote:

People are allowed to criticize a product that they buy, and they should be allowed to do so without someone guilt-tripping them for not lapping up a poor release like a good little robot.


Although equally the people who complain should not call buyers, good little robots.

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 Post subject: Re: Sailor Moon Classic Toei HD Remaster
PostPosted: Fri Apr 10, 2015 6:00 pm 
Lumen Cinereum
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Seen wrote:
Black_Chaos wrote:
Ami Mizuno wrote:
Can we at least be thankful that VIZ even got the rights. Its not their fault Toei had the good remasters. Okayy would u guys rather wait and have them stop production of the dub to get the remasters? Not get sailor moon until a long time from now.


People are never happy and would complain either way sadly. Even if video quality isn't the best (although it looks fine to me) I'm glad Viz got the rights and even gave dub fans a faithful dub.


People are allowed to criticize a product that they buy, and they should be allowed to do so without someone guilt-tripping them for not lapping up a poor release like a good little robot.

I'm sorry, but... Even if your statement is true? To me, it came off a bit too rude, condescending and uncalled for in my honest opinion.

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